This Week in Coverager (6/5/2020)

Shefi, Avi and Nick discussed:
Everquote taking a page from Assurance IQ
The Root & Homesite partnership

Watch here:

 

Transcript

Nick
And we're back This Week in Coverager for the week of June 1st. This is the show where we talk about the major headlines that have occurred in the Coverager newsletter, the ones that got the most attention, the most drama. And I would like to welcome Avi and Shefi to the show. Good morning.

Shefi
Hi. Good morning.

Avi
Morning.

Nick
Morning. So I'll be I'll kick it over to you. What's, what's your top story, top topic.

Avi
So one of the biggest stories this week uncovered or was Everquote, trying to be more like Assurance IQ. So a few months ago, late last year, I would say Everquote decided to launch an in house insurance agency to focus on life insurance products. And this is something they worked on in the past. It didn't come to life so much. They kind of said, we're not doing it. But they think the Assurance IQ acquisition gave them the drive to say, you know what, let's do it. Let's compete with them. So they launched that. The platform was called Sage. I believe they trademarked it as well. And it was kind of similar but a little different because they offered the $30,000 base pay unlike Assuance IQ employees, or they're not employees or contractors, 1099 commission based only. So this week, well, we wrote about it this week. The job was going on for a few weeks. They decided to post a few more jobs. So first, they apparently are opening an office in Seattle, Washington. I think that's a 13 minute drive from Bellevue where Assurance IQ is, so very close. And they are hiring first, a remote agent which is the first time doing so, remote agents, life insurance agents can work anywhere, very similar to Assurance IQ. And there is no talk about compensation so you don't know if it's salary based or commission based. But I think the big story is the remote, the life insurance, and getting very much to be like Assurance IQ. And it's interesting for Everquote, because ever called does sell leads to life insurance companies, they are in the space of life insurance, they sell leads. So now the question is, what leads will they give their partners and what leads will they use for their in house agency? I see this as more of like, you know, it's not about strategy. I feel like they want to be in the face of Assurance IQ. They want to be in the face of Select Quote in a way. Both of them were either acquired or valued at a way higher than Everquote, so they may see an opportunity there. It's a very difficult space, but it's the space is becoming competitive. And I think it's bad news for Prudential, of course, because everybody's looking at Assurance, IQ and saying, Well, what are they doing? Let's do the same.

Shefi
So I will chime in and say that this is a dream come true for Prudential because they thought they bought the Uber of insurance. And they actually started to promote that I believe on Instagram, right, Avi, that's the platform you've spotted. Well think about it this way. There's a loyalty to Uber. A driver will swap from like Lyft and Uber and whatever. apps are there in order to try and supplement their income. That's just been it. That's a reality. Right? And that's, that's similarly to what can happen here who's to say that the agent is going to be loyal to one platform or the other and they're just getting a lot of that because It's so easy to continue with this commission only model.

Avi
There's another problem.

Shefi
Yeah.

Avi
With the Uber of insurance to be the Uber of insurance, everybody said, Oh, who's going to be the Uber of insurance? Well, you know, there are stories of Uber drivers where passengers go in and they get killed by an axe, or they get attacked. Because when there is no regulation, and you're not a driver who's been doing this for many years are you actually want to be a driver, then the whole like, commitment to the customer and you know, patience that needs to come with a job that's not there. And it's a very challenging business model. And when you look at Assurance IQ, the Uber of insurance, they give their commission based agents kind of like a green light, go do whatever the hell you want. And then there's scam and fraud and a lot of bad stuff. So now Prudential is saying wait a second, you know, we write on our website, how to avoid scamming seniors because you know, they're not in that business. So all of a sudden, they're hiring all these compliance investigators to kind of bring it back to shape. But the problem is, when you take that away, when you regulate it, then you can't sell as much. It's a fact, when you let people do whatever they want, they could sell. If you're 290 pounds, and the health insurance is not going to take people over 285, then let's say your 285, and that happens. So now they're regulating it. They're going to see less sales that's what happened. So Assurance IQ will not have the momentum it had and for ever quote, which I doubt they will do something like that, because you know, they're a public company. It'd be very stupid of them to do. They won't get to where Assurance IQ was before. It's a very, you know, there is no win/win here. Like there's no way to win, there are no shortcuts, there are shortcuts to yes scamming seniors and all that stuff. And you know, sure, it's like you found a great shortcut in the Prudential acquisition. But will Prudential see any success from Assuarnce IQ, if they take away what they're good at, which is letting loose and giving agents the green light to do whatever the hell they want? Of course not.

Shefi
I want to make a general statement about this because I got a comment from a user who probably listened to our latest podcast and it was around Geico's direct premium growth and a comment that he made in terms of slower growth or slower growth than normal, right. Everything we're talking about, we're talking about really big companies, corporations, and most of them, all of them have money and capital. That's not the issue. If we thought that was it, then there's probably no room for Coverager for innovation or for new players, but we're not seeing that. So the whole idea is to spot the differences, to spot what is going wrong, what is not going as good as it went in 1990 or before 2012. Right? So to spot opportunities because there is no monopoly in insurance, you've got a lot of players. And this is really evident by Root, which we're going to talk about shortly. Right. So where can you grab market share. So, to put Geico number into contacts, right, they started with 15 million, they now have 17 million customers, but to earn that other million customers, it took them a longer time than to jump from 15 million to 16 million. So we're talking about opportunities, you can hold on to your old metrics all day long. And if you do good luck, I mean, then how do you wake up at night and thinking I'm going to win this? I have no idea. But if you if you look at details, and if you look at the details in the context of insurance, which is really important. That's why you're rarely going to say to us, whoa, this is a disrupter or anything of that sort. We actually don't do that. Then you see the use the opportunities and clearly there are opportunities because there are new entrants and they are getting traction. Right. So

Avi
you're not here to your point with a Geico comment. I think it was 2018, 2018 was when they grew their policy base with a net 525,000. policyholders, I believe. So. That's what they added. They may have sold a million but you know, they had 500,000 cancellations. So that's how they grew. And that was spending I believe, 1.3 billion in advertising, 1.5 billion advertising. It's competitive. It's more expensive. Doesn't matter if your name is Geico or Progressive. Of course, Progressive has the benefit. You know, if you have home insurance with Progressive and you decide to launch a business, guess what you're probably going to Progressive to see do they offer commercial insurance and they do so you go in, you go through the flow and the Progressive is very happy, because, you know, they're top of mind but Yeah, it's growing slowly. To grow fast, you have to be very aggressive and maybe do stuff that you're not comfortable with. But there is no Oh, hey, you know, we're about community. Come buy insurance from us. Forget about that.

Shefi
Well, two examples of people that are trying to actually do something different, right? One Hiscox, they will mention how we've got the you know, traditional marketing tactics, whether whatever it will be right they work with advertisers, but then they will point out but we are being experimental. Right. And a lot of it is being done in the UK in terms of how to target small businesses and what I've seen as it's done around cyber insurance, which is gaining traction. Good for them. You have to be experimental and in my mind, experimental means we're jumping into something we don't know what the return will be. But let's try so we can know that if it does or if it doesn't work, same thing. I will I will tell the agents of Nationwide we're now jumping onto hearsay social because they want to try a Facebook ad. Hey, agents, it's not going to work. But if you have to wait till 2020 to figure that out, then go for it and let's move on. The other thing about agents being agent/carriers or whoever is winning, being a little bit experimental is a Trupanion. Right? There's a lot of talk about pet insurance. Trupanion is a company that you've got to respect. They're probably second in the space after Nationwide. And you you hear them explain, even though they've got territory managers, and they have a lead on vets and hospitals and they've got distribution figured out. They're not coming in and say, Hey, you know, we're the King Kongs of the world. We figured out everything. It's clear from how they're positioning themselves and how you're talking about the market is that when everybody's going online, they said there's no difference. And Avi wrote, wrote this elaborately in the Modern Insurance report about millennials, how when you're online, go differentiate yourself. It is so hard because there isn't that human element. And they're basically saying, you know, all our competitors, they have a checkbox that they're different and they're great. So it's up to the customer to do the research. So the market is changing it is it may not be more competitive because you know, in a different breath, that Trupanion will say, Hey, we're always competing against the same 20, underwriters and pet insurance. But there are tons more brands out there ton more brands and it's up to the user to decide, are they buying from Policygenius, or are they buying from another life insurance aggregator you name it?

Nick
Yeah, the the internet's the great democratizer right. It's, so easy to set up, right? It's a webpage so you know, someone that's trying to digitize their process. It's very easy to copy for one thing but it's hard to get through the clutter and the noise, that is the internet where there's just a bazillion things being thrown at you. It reminds me of I was on the Elevate panel last week. This week, the weeks are all blending together. And Bradley Flowers was on there. And he he counsels new agencies, right? And he's like, you know, what's your differentiator and he's like, he's just jaw drops every single time. And it shouldn't when someone says, oh, our differentiator's we were really great at Customer service he's always like, well, how?, and they can't this they can't say they just the they have these good intentions, but everybody is good at customer service. Everyone thinks they have. It's that checkbox. Right. And it's just extremely difficult for you to differentiate yourself in this space. And I think the events of the past few months, and the events of the past week are going to make that even harder Shefi because now they're the these general property policies, right, where you just we're going to go 50 states, like, folks, companies are gonna have to really reconsider that strategy of just trying to sell to pretty much everybody. You know, in all 50 states like you're gonna see a big pullback from cities, you're gonna see a big pull , sorry pullback from offering business interruption coverage is going to be a big pullback. So if they're going to pull back, where else are they going to go to get premium? I struggle to see how executives at insurance carriers are innovative enough, because they've been doing the same thing for so long. I just, I don't see how they're doing it and the Everquote, examples just in the way the Prudential handle is just another example of like, let's just copy what someone else is doing. We'll just add like a little twist to it and see if we can get get some traction on it.

Avi
You know, the you talked about how the internet is kind of democratizing things and in 1996 At a conference of the Society of Actuaries, I believe it was 1996. There was a guy, Mike Levine, I believe his name. And he said they were talking about the internet, how internet will impact insurance...1996, more than 20 years ago. And he said, Look, the internet gives a small company that may not have 500 locations across the country, the opportunity to have presence at the front page. And it's exactly that. But we know that in a lot of cases, that's not enough anymore. So how do you differentiate you say customer service, you can't feel customer service. You say your food tastes better, you can feel that your food tastes better. It's like claims. I don't know what claim is. So if you look at the most, you know, popular and in demand insurance companies of the last decade or two, it's all about price. Warby Parker. Just cheaper. Casper...cheaper, Dollar Shave Club...cheaper. It's all about price because price is a differentiator. You see the price tag is like, Oh, yeah, that's 50% off. And you know, you look at Root. And of course, it wasn't enough because everybody's saying, Oh, 50% off. Everybody's doing that. But they said, Well 52% off if you drive well, and now it's a challenge. Yeah, I'm a good driver. I think I am. Let me see what I can get. So you want to differentiate on internet and that's it. It's price. But

Nick
Okay, so I was gonna interrupt you anyways. Avi Yeah. So, uh, you know who doesn't compete on price, you know who's actually very much more expensive. Apple. Apple spends all of their time differentiating, look at the, the monumental effort that's required to get them to, differentiate themselves. But I will tell you for those that are listening, if you haven't had a chance, we just released the Just Auto podcast last week. That's an innovative differentiator. Name me another insurance company that is coming out and saying we are actually targeting low income drivers.

Shefi
The General! That's what I always thought, am I wrong up to belief? This

Avi
The one with the the accidents, I believe right accidents.

Nick
Okay, let me let me change that. I by

Shefi
the way I hate the brand. So

Nick
yes

Avi
I love I love the General

I know..I know

Nick
Name another company that's targeting low income individuals and actually designing the entire product to execute on that. If you go to The General you're just getting an auto policy, you're still you may you may market to them, but the product itself is going to be expensive.

Avi
Yeah

Nick
Right. And you're you have to low income folks, they'll have to make a huge commitment to it, which they can't do, which is why it's well, Just Auto has built an entire business model including the product design to actually execute and help low income drivers...that's a differentiator Avi and I'm telling you go to any of the other major insurance comapnies there's absolutely no way they would do anything like what Just Auto is doing.

Shefi
Yeah, so I understand that they're they're only offering contracts for

Nick
monthly. It's the monthly contracts. So basically, it's more like a similar to a mobile phone with rollover minutes. So you pay for the first 30 days, telematics...through your phone. It keeps track of the miles that you're driving. It actually will tell you how much of your balance you are consuming. So it'll help you adjust for the month. And anything you don't use rolls over into the next month. And then they use the telematics to then reprice. And

Shefi
if I, if I understand correctly, he's also targeting folks that doesn't that don't have a credit score at all or don't have a good credit score. And in that area alone, there are so many alternative distribution partners that you could be working with new FinTech companies that are targeting that exact type of client,

Avi
I think, you know, it's it's a very interesting model and just we read Trupanions, you know, transcript of one of their conversations and what he kept on saying, look, we are expensive. We target a very different demographic, and when it's a hard time and they talked about COVID-19, they didn't see many cancellations because these people have more income, so they're good to keep it. I wonder how a product like Just Auto will work where a lot of these low income people if they have been working and been laid off, would they keep their auto insurance? That's my only objection. But yeah, if you build that, and there's a community around it, then you know, it's real value, then, yeah, there's no other you're saying no one else is offering that so you're the only one doing this exact thing.

Shefi
So talking about people doing the same exact thing. Root Insurance Agency,

Nick
good, good segue. Good job.

Shefi
That's a new term. I don't know that I saw I didn't I don't think I saw it coming to be honest Root Insurance Agency, especially because they've got this web page that I always lose track of it, but it has, It has this like illustration of we're mobile agency or mobile carriers are the kind of the smallest agency you've ever seen or something along the lines. I don't know. It's very cute. It's and it probably, you know, gets people to Click and convert. However, desperate times call for desperate measures. That's kind of how I look at it. They're bundling with Homesite now. So they're going to offer their auto insurance clients home insurance through Homesite with the opportunity to get 10% off their home insurance premium. Everything is done with an app so they don't have to go to experience like it's not through the Homesite experience. I haven't experienced it because I'm not a route auto customer. Otherwise, I would have loved to seen it. But we've got so I mean Root, they're they're an insurer. They started out with auto they moved into the renter's insurance space. They're moving that into the home insurance space. So it literally like if you look at it from the finish line. You're seeing, you know, a mini Progressive in terms of the audience that they're targeting and how they're targeting them. It's just that the sequencing is different anyway, That was a that was a top story in terms of clicks on Coverager or so I maybe it caught other people by surprise maybe the partnership with Homesite I mean, home site, let me Okay, I have to read this to you. Hold on. I love course, of course every I think every Insurtech out there, okay 99.9% and I don't count trust the pilot reviews as trustworthy. So I'm going to put that aside, but for the most part, there isn't an Insurtech or an insurance company that has their Facebook reviews, the honest Facebook reviews, the one that where you can tie it back to an actual individual and see a little bit about themselves have have it on right so we're all dealing with a very complicated industry in which every time there's a claim or somebody's feeling unsatisfied or most signs I should say, right, we know that we acknowledge that we're not holding it against you. I'm just telling you where we are all the same, right? But Homesite reviews are turned off but people are going to the post and one of it is terrible company for homeowners. Homesite this company's definition of slimy and they go on like we had with wind damage I'm not going to go in these are very lengthy posts because people are passionate especially when they're hurt. This is the worst insurance company ever. exclamation point exclamation point, check your policy, make sure that that the deductible set is what you agreed upon. These are not ignorant consumers. These are consumers that can talk about, you know, describe their situation. So there is that element now Root insurance in terms of reviews, they get a lot of bad reviews when people feel like they were good for six months and then the price was was increased right. So we've seen that I think in terms of claims route actually has all claims in house Avi did a report so claims is one of their largest departments,

Avi
the largest department by yeah by number of employees and if you look at really the reviews, and we've been working got them all the time. So I would say in the last six months, there have been more negative reviews than positive reviews because you know, the six months comes up renewal prices increase. And it's interesting to home insurance because the majority of their customer base is young. So I don't know if everybody owns a home, maybe in Columbus, Ohio, they make enough money to own a home maybe I don't know, but or another place Texas is like their biggest state so maybe their young people have homes. I'm 35 I don't have a home yet. I've been quarantined with my in laws for three months. So this is me, this is my story. But you know, Root wants to get to that stickiness and they want to make more money per customer. That's the name of the game. It always was, you know, good for them going that route. So does this mean that Root is now because they say they don't work with agents? Are They Now?

Shefi
Well, no, they aren't.

Avi
They're an agent. Okay. So they're there. Not working with themselves, but they're there.

Shefi
Yeah, that's the way.

Avi
Yeah, but but that's, you know, everybody looks to make more money. And again to get to that stickiness. So if you do increase your rate while there's a well, the home insurance part is still good. So I won't cancel that's like that

Shefi
really makes sense. Because if they have to, if they have to convince somebody to say it's a lot easier to convince a client to say with bundling, right, we've seen it basically I'm saying this is not nothing new under the sun. So in a sense, the only thing that I didn't see was them becoming an agency and partnering with someone like Homesite.

Avi
But you know what, we talked about Assurance IQ, we talked about what happens when you take the magic away. Whenever and I said the same thing about Lemonade, and Lemonade to me is still like a mystery. But Root, the second an insurance company buys Root. Let's say that's going to happen. Let's say a Progressive wants to buy Root and the second they take away that 52% off they're annoying ads on YouTube say 52% or pay how you drive blah, blah, blah, they're going to see less growth, you know that they're not going to grow as fast. They're not going to attract as many customers. It's very simple. That's what's going to happen. But they're moving fast. And I wrote about this in the past and I said Lemonade, while Root is getting dirty, and they're getting dirty, and they're going to get more dirty. Lemonade is trying to, you know, keep that pink, beautiful and shiny. They're very careful with what they do, what states they launch. What they say they haven't changed and show me another website. Okay, and insurance and a lot of other places. Show me another website that hasn't changed its tagline. from the get go. Lemonade did not change "forget everything you know about insurance". Not yet. And that's their consistency, but I feel like again, it's kind of like hurting them because they're going to go into pet Pet is going to be challenging. They have a good shot, but they're going to need more. I believe they have 800,000 policyholders but their premiums, obviously, when you look at you know, renter's insurance. It's just you can't compare it to auto, it's just a different ballgame. But Lemonade needs to add some, you know, black to the pink. And I think do more, because in terms of execution, I don't think, you know, they're very smart people over there, and they're very creative. And they could come up with good ways to figure out how to, you know, be more than renters and pet insurance. So they'll have to, you know, if they want to, really

Nick
well, yeah, like, the renter's insurance market will never justify the valuation that they're getting. I think the valuation they're getting this has always been the understanding that they would use their technology to go into other lines. pet insurance makes a lot of sense, because that's a checkbox Their renter's insurance application, right. And also when a renewal comes up, they can say, Hey, we now offer pet insurance and they can now bundle that. As Shefi said, bundling is going to increase retention.

Avi
Yeah.

Nick
Because you're not going to want to disassemble that. I can, I can tell you from now personal example. So I was a Travelers customer. For several years. I go through an agency system, they put me with travelers satisfied. moved to Florida, and went to a different agency and they put me with progressive. This first thing I noticed was travelers has bundled everything, everything's all on one website. I go I log in, I can see my renters. I can see my auto progressive is not a does not have their own homeowners insurance company. I have a separate login. I have to go to a separate website to see my renders. I now have literally Two policies that they've stitched together. And it is not enjoyable is I have to went when, when I had to cancel my travelers policy, I had to go to two different websites to get the documentation to send over to travelers. So, the I understand the route in the home site, it'll be all about execution on what the what they do and like obviously, I think there's so many different ways that can just blow up and not be not be good. Like it just it we're in such a complex industry. People don't like the product. Right? So you have to go out of your way to make the product design. Different better. You know, one of you were talking about claims. I've heard horrible things about Geico claims, but Geico keeps growing. Why? Because what obviously they're cheaper. So own less than 5% of your policyholders are going to have claims So, you know, let's say half of those people end up leaving because they're dissatisfied with the claims process doesn't matter you're getting the the new customers will easily replace that.

Avi
Yeah, it's just exactly that. It's like, there's so many good things going for insurance like really you could have such a bad product but no one will know like a customer will not know you have a bad product because they will never have a claim. Well listen to their insurance.

Shefi
You talked that you brought up you brought up apple in the conversation. Apple needs to reinvent itself every few years. Right smartphone, the pads right? It's just they have to, they have the thing like what has really changed in insurance,

Nick
nothing. Nothing.

Shefi
We all know, we all know Brian's Duppereault's salary. I'm not gonna talk about AIG.

As an insurance professional. I see the value of what we do on a day to day basis. I understand it, it is not enough. It just, it's dissatisfying. I'll let me let me try to simplify as best I can selling insurance is dissatisfied. paying a claim is satisfied. I think we need to get to a point beyond this where there's something bigger beyond just paying a claim. My preference is that we prevent or mitigate the claim. We just prevent the claim from occurring. If we can. That's much more satisfying to me. I we're a long ways off and I don't know how else we differentiate ourselves. You know, lemonade has made it a social cause I salute them for trying to do it that way. But no, none of the other insurers are really doing anything that's I think noteworthy on the and when I say none, I say most, but I see stuff like just auto and it gives me hope.

Avi
You know, I think it's very hard from, like looking at from the insurance product, you know, how do you really change it? And personally, again, I believe you could be more efficient and you could help really the client understand the value and help mitigate risk and, and all that. But then some will say to you, well, like I was speaking to someone, he said, Look, if insurance companies want people to understand the value of insurance, they need to have claims. That's how they understand the value like you need to go through a claim to understand Oh, okay, this is good. So it's very difficult. I feel like a lot of it is like, you can add value in different ways. It doesn't have to be around insurance. And I feel like that's one of the problems that that's kind of the lie. I feel like a lot of consultancies have been pushing and saying, Oh, you can delight customers with insurance. If you had a claim and you offer the delightful experience? Yes. But day to day How are you doing? You cannot and not everybody is sophisticated enough to appreciate getting that Smart Sensor and like, Oh, this really helps, you know, mitigate the risk. Not everybody is like that. So it's very difficult, you know, you will find Apple customers are not happy, you will find that everybody has a complaint, you know, no one is 100%. But I think in insurance, you need to say, Can I do something better? That hasn't been done in 200 years? I don't know how long insurance has existed? Or should I try to do something else should I try to do, you know, offer some other benefit? Because at the end of the day, and I always like to give this example when you go to a restaurant, you usually experience two things, the taste of the foods and the quality of service. I know a lot of people including myself, I would probably go eat, not as great of a meal. But if the owner remembers me and He gives me 100 Five when I come in, I like that. I know other people that say, I don't care if I'm eating from a dumpster, I just want the food to be the best. I don't care about anything else. So you at least have two things to consider. So the food may have been not so great. But you know, you've got the third on the house. So you're happy, you're gonna come back with insurance. You don't have those two elements, you have the price that's taken from you, and every month you pay. And that's it. So if you have that bad claim, you know, there's nothing like Why should I come back? Yeah, so you need to bring other things to the table.

Nick
So you can hear the exit music that's coming. But listen, if this is just economics 101 it can really only be one price winner. Yeah, right. So low price is a very dangerous game. For almost all insurers. There always be someone who's gonna offer it at a less lesser price to you. So I ever, however, okay,

Shefi
nobody is targeting everybody. Everybody has something in their underwriting or a secret sauce or whether it's Insurtech that they know a demographic that they want to target like just auto with low income. I don't think everybody is sharing it. Maybe one is focus on urban population, maybe one is focusing on the 21 to 25. Like who? So nobody's going to insure everybody, and we do have a lot of insurance players at least pretending to play the game of price, whether they stick to it for 12 months or six months. We don't know but their reality is, this is what consumers are hearing day in, day out. It started off with $5 renter's insurance.

Nick
That's true. Yeah. Yeah. I just I hate the price game. You know, and I just want insurers to kind of step And offer something that's Meteor to differentiate themselves beyond beyond just price, and we have a wealth of data. Let's use

Shefi
it. So you taught me something, Nick, you don't know this. He did many things. But one of the things he taught me was to look at things right. So in Coverager, our strategy, we are big on online, we will always be online, not very less offline. And we were talking about this right, we were talking about how I think being online is effective, right has been effective for Coverager or clearly we have research customers, and we're in business. And you've mentioned something in terms of when to go offline is important. Right? So first, maybe there's an introduction through the internet, through webinar and then if there if everybody's, you know, vetted out and serious, then you move to offline and you pursue, especially an enterprise sale, right? You might you might pursue the lead, so I'm talking about the b2b business. Same thing here with insurance. You can have a tactic for a year, that doesn't mean you need to carry that tactic forever and ever, right? So maybe you start in playing on price. But maybe you start to blur the lines because there's customer service, just like we were seeing with progressive recently in with COVID, which brought in tons of beautiful stories, right? I love everyone I'm hearing, right. So lots of good is happening in the industry. So there is an opportunity to move away from you know, you start off where the customer is that this is what Lemonade that they started off with a with a customer is at, remember that this is not our money. This is their money. This is probably every second person's opinion, if especially if they're not from the insurance industry. And it resonated because they understood they were giving money and when the claim was was denied. You know, when Daniel Schreiber said that, I get it, I got it. I still get it. No, I can play both ends, by the way, but both sides. But you don't have to stick to that all the time. You can. There is a conversion process. You want a customer to stay with you. You want to evolve. We all have to evolve right? I mean If we would have stayed, you know, insurance, entertainment, you know, everybody evolves, you can evolve with your messaging as well. But do what you have to do to get some scale at the beginning. So I agree.

Nick
So my exit music This Week in Coverager..that was a spirited discussion. Thank you. Yeah. For everyone that's listening crazy times. Be safe. We'll see you next week.

Shefi
Bye, everybody.

Avi
Bye