EP15 – Helping Low Income Drivers Get Auto Insurance: Robert Smithson, CEO of Telematics Insurer Just Auto

Just Auto is perhaps the first truly telematic auto insurance company. Monthly subscriptions, no long-term contracts. Targeting drivers who would benefit from the technology to make them better drivers so that they can afford auto insurance. Targeting low-income drivers who struggle to acquire auto insurance and where one incident could financially devastate them for the rest of their lives. Robert Smithson’s mission is truly inspirational in how Just Auto is intersecting technology, insurance and a mission.

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Connect:
Robert Smithson – https://www.linkedin.com/in/robert-smithson-just/
Just Auto Homepage – https://www.just.insure/

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Transcript

Nick
And we're live and we're back. Coverager Podcast, late afternoon, still in pandemic times. Welcome. I would like to introduce my guest, Robert Smithson, founder and CEO of Just auto. Welcome.

Robert
Ah, nice to be here. Thanks, Nick.

Nick
Yeah. So we live in these interesting times. You just had to lock your door so nobody would come in. I have to do the same behind me. How are you?

Robert
Ah, the answer is, I'm doing pretty well. I'm very lucky. If you're going to be forced to quarantine anyway Los Angeles is definitely one of the better places to be quarantine...as is Florida.

Nick
Yes. Yeah. So we were we were just discussing that and you know, there are worse places. I just moved from New England and it's the middle of April and they just got four inches of snow. So no bueno. Glad glad that we're in warmer weather, we can go outside occasionally get a breath of fresh air. And I understand I just read that the skies in Los Angeles have never been bluer.

Robert
That is certainly true, unfortunately, from the perspective of an ultimate insurance company, the reason or is the per mile one. The reason they've been blue is because no one is driving.

Nick
Yes.

Robert
Which is both the strength of the per mile product which is great for customers, but a negative because we do quite like premiums.

Nick
Yes. And we're going to talk about that we're going to get into your business model. So you kind of already jumped into it. Can you talk about Just Auto? Who are you? What do you do?

Robert
Okay, so just auto insurance is a, another next-generation usage based auto insurer. But there are a couple things that make us different from a Nobbler or a Root or a Metromile. And I think they come in it comes to heart. Firstly, our business model is different. And secondly, our customer target market is different. So if you look at our business model, we are pure per mile.

Unknown Speaker
So we don't have a monthly element at all. Now that may change in future when we start adding full coverage but for liability only, it's straight per mile. The second thing that you need to know is that comes out of this is that we don't really have anything that looks like a traditional contract term. What we give you is a price that is good for 30 days. As you drive, we change the price every 30 days. While our contract length is just just 30 days. So the way it works is you load up your account with, let's say, $30, we give you an initial price of say 10 cents a mile. And as you drive, we learn more about you. And then in your second month, should you choose to stay with us give you a price that is a combination of demographics and driving data or telematics. What this means is that compared to somebody using discounts, we have a much greater ability to flex our pricing in response to driver behavior. The second thing that's interesting about this model, of course, is that it requires very little commitment on behalf of a customer. They're not entering into an annual contract. They're not going to have $100 taken out their account at the beginning of every month. If they're not driving, they are not paying. And that's quite appealing in this sort of COVID-19 period. So that's the first that's slightly from the business model. The second thing, which is very unique about us is if you look at pretty much all the other UBI telematics best guys, they're all focused on what I might describe as better off consumers. They like people who have good credit ratings. They like people who live in nice parts of town who drive nice cars. They're probably like you're part of Naples.

Unknown Speaker
We're focusing on low income consumers. And that's for two reasons. Firstly, it's a big untapped market. And there are lots of people in the United States that don't have insurance, because getting even minimum liability insurance is expensive and difficult and and we really lowered the barrier to getting getting. And the second thing is, if you think about it, the group of customers who would benefit most from telematics priced insurance, our lower income customers. Well off customers are not going to change their driving style to save 20 bucks a month. We believe that low income consumers who face many bigger constraints on their, on their on their income, they will be and so we think it is particularly well suited to that demographic.

Nick
How do you do it?

Robert
So our technology probably doesn't look a million miles different to a Root. So you download the app? Well, you download the app, you go through a very quick onboarding process, we have a total time to insured of less than one minute. And that's because our telematics pricing element means we don't need to know so much about you. We're only living with the price we've given you for one month.

So, we can say ok Nick, what sex are you? How old are you? What's your zip code? Do you have any accidents, claims violations and effects. We're just implementing right now on our on our website, an instant quote. So no need to enter any details about yourself. You know, enter email address, literally just, it's all there on one page, just under 20 seconds and get a quote.

And that's your quote for the first month. Now as you drive around, how far you drive, and we learn things about how you drive and that enables us to set the price for the next month. The metrics we use. They're probably very similar to other telematics players. We think we have some secret sauce. Some of the secret sauce is secret, but I'm Yeah, let me give you a couple of small examples. We use data on where every traffic signal is in the United States. So we then look at the GPS track of our customers. And we then look at them as they go through traffic. And so we look at the traffic, they will say, does this customer, doesn't Nick, if it doesn't change speed when you get to the traffic signal that was probably green. On the other hand, if he slows down when he was 100 meters away, 100 yards sorry, it was probably red up for those other ones, what's the point at which he chooses to either accelerate to go through or press the foot down to stop and we can work out for you based on statistical analysis, how aggressive you are in trying to beat that yellow cycle, because our view is that people who are aggressive I try to be the people are more like accidents. And so, this is actually really interesting as it comes down to the point about our monthly pricing element, and that is traditional telematics offerings, they work about giving you a price at a discount. So they only give you a fairly narrow range of probabilistic outcomes, you might say there's only a small range of probabilities. But the reality is a safe driver is 10 times or a 10th as likely to have an accident the dangerous driver, and our model allows us to express that wide range of outcomes because we're able to change our pricing regularly and eventually move to something that is essentially all telematics space.

Nick
And the so if I'm if I understand this correctly, there's nothing to plug in.

Robert
It's currently not a plugin, we are going to offer an optional dongle because you know, the more we look at things, the more interesting stuff we discover. So I want to know if your brake pads are worn. Because I want to be able to tell you

Nick
Yes

Robert
that if you change them, I can cut your insurance rate?

Nick
Yeah. So plugging into the health and well being of the vehicle also contributes to whether there might be an accident because you'll know ahead of time whether there could be something wrong with the brakes or some other aspect of the vehicle. The vehicle's wobbling...

Robert
As well underinflated tires...it's interesting because you know, it's going to be fixed, you kind of got straight away. A lot of people think the OBD two is giving you telematics data about the driving skill. The reality is the phone tells you almost all of that that you need to get. But the health of the car has a huge impact on the likelihood of an accident. If your car is not capable of stopping quickly. No matter how skilled a driver you are, you could cause an accidnt...

Nick
Yeah, no, that makes that makes a ton of sense. So where'd the idea come from?

Robert
Okay, so so my background is I'm a, started a bunch of companies. We were talking before this call about a business, though, that I found it called PythonAnywhere, software as a service company. But the biggest sort of project of my life was a sports technology and sports data company called Genius Sports. And what Genius Sports did was Genius Sports price to risk of sporting events happening by which I mean, and I realized that, you know, I'm going to talk in the language of European soccer, because that's mostly what we did. But they use technology to judge in real time, which team was the next one that was going to score the most likely, which player was the most likely to score next, what the end score from a game was going to be? And that allowed people that hosting events to use their smartphones to to wager on them as the event was going on. And that technology that real time pricing, when we looked at auto insurance in the US, because I saw that I noticed how unsophisticated those models were. I thought it was a fantastic opportunity to take what I've learned in pricing of sporting events. And moving that to to auto insurance.

Nick
Yeah, no. So that's the same technology where it gives like the probability of winning.

Robert
Exactly!

Nick
Yeah. Oh, that's, that's interesting. So but, do you remember the time where the light bulb went off in your head and you in your, was it a moment of frustration? Like, how did you end up locking into insurance? How did you end up seeing that as potentially the inefficient model that could benefit from this type of technology that you were developing?

Robert
Well, I think it was when I went to try and get auto insurance myself, because I'm a relatively recent

Unknown Speaker
immigrants, the United States, I came here in the summer of 2017, so three years, three years ago. And, of course, you come to United States, you don't have a credit rating, which I hadn't realized until I got here was the single most important thing that any American can have. And of course, that impacts your, insurance rates. And so, you know, you realize this incredibly sophisticated system that American insurers created. But it's incredibly sophisticated at working out the risk of a group of population, but individual risk is not the same as average risk across the population. What...the lightbulb moment was the realization that with modern technology, we can look into the car and we can see the person driving and we can understand the real risk of that particular driver at that moment on this road, not just looking at, you know, no matter how sophisticated what the average is.

Nick
Yeah. So classic experience, right, a buyer goes to purchase a product or solution and is completely dissatisfied and says there's got to be a better way.

Robert
The irony, the irony is that, you know, I live in California, which is great from a lockdown perspective. But unfortunately, it's terrible from an insurance perspective because California has the most restrictive and innovation-unfriendly laws or regulations around auto insurance, which is a real shame because I think Californians is would love it.

Nick
Yeah. So where are you located? What states can you offer the product?

Robert
So we launched literally at the very beginning of this month, in Arizona. So we now have real customers driving around...no accidents yet. So it's hard to know if we're predicting them, right? But let's keep it up!

We'll be rolling out to other states in the Southwestern us over the next 12 months. So, you if we were to talk again, 12 months from now, we'll be in Texas, New Mexico, Utah and Colorado, as well as Arizona.

Nick
Yeah. So I'm curious as to how the state regulators in Arizona, they are your first state how they interacted with you. Regardless, because auto insurance is very old. It's been done the same way for a very long time. It was difficult enough for them to get the credit ratings in there. So this, your approach is a significant departure and it sounds like it's even a significant departure from your competitors that are also pay pay per usage, so to speak.

Robert
Yeah.

Nick
What was that interaction like with the regulators how much pushback did they give on you, given that this is this is very different than what they're used to?

Robert
Well, I think it's it's an excellent question. And I have been enormously impressed by the regulators in Arizona. I went to go see him for the first time in July last year. And, you know, we sketched out what we're trying to do and our plan and their attitude throughout was, how can we help that happen in Arizona? How can we, how can we increase the choice of consumers in Arizona as far as the auto insurance? So from the start, they were terrifically helpful. Now, I think our product is going to be very attractive to regulators because of two things. Firstly, the nature of it. The ease in which you can get it the low cash down element of this means that we're going to be insuring people who have not previously had insurance 13% cars in the US don't have insurance. That compares to 1% in most other developed countries, even that's the law. So we're going to help lower the number of uninsured cars on the road. The second thing is, we don't just judge whether you're a good driver, we also give you feedback in real time to reduce your chances of having an accident. And so our hope is that when we get to September, October, that we'll be able to turn up the regulator and say, Hey, guys, now we have 2000 customers, of our 2000 customers, 1000 didn't previously have insurance. So we're carrying out that mission, and of all of our customers these customers are 25 or 30% less likely to have accidents than other people in their demographic group because we've been able to tell them, show them how to drive better

Nick
No that's, I didn't even think of it that way. That's, I would have imagined the regulator pushing back just simply because, you know, they always have issues around making sure that it's affordable. But that's what you're doing. You're making it extremely affordable. And I didn't realize that the uninsured driving problem was that in depth, I would have guessed single digits for 15%. That's, that's pretty bad. That's one in 10 drivers around you potentially don't have insurance.

Robert
That's why you should always take the uninsured underinsured coverage books.

Nick
Tip for everyone at home, you heard it here. You heard it here first. Always accept that coverage. So as part of your business model, are you the risk taker on this or do you have a carrier that you're working with?

Robert
That's right, we are a We're a full stack carrier. We are looking to partner with reinsurance. But right now we're carrying all the risk.

Nick
Yep. Can you? Can you talk a little bit about the discussion that you potentially had when you started about whether to go in that direction and why you ended up choosing that versus going the mga direction, which is what a lot of other startups end up doing, myself included.

Robert
So that is that is a genuinely excellent question. And we spent a lot of time talking about this earlier. And really two or three reasons why we were the carrier. Firstly, govern the mga route before you have any real data is expensive. To give you that regulatory and to use what is abolut you, you are seeing typically fairly, you know, 8/10 percent of your premiums are going to be going out to your partner. For somebody who hopefully shouldn't be bearing any real risk at all. So it's expensive. The second thing is that we are looking to iterate our pricing model every month. So we're looking to add additional features into how we price risk all the time. And that means that every month we want to go to the tough insurance and say, Hey, guys, here's our new reg filing, the crucial part is page 262, where we introduced the following three factors. And here's our analysis what this does to people's rates based upon. And when we spoke to insurance about the beginning of the mga route, they were quite uncomfortable about making rate filings at that pace. And they will also, because we haven't quite got, we haven't quite settled on the model of the 30 days yet, they were also very confused about a situation where you might have customers effectively on 12 Rate plans, because you filed new ones every month of the course of the year. And they thought this is going to be difficult, and they really didn't, weren't keen on our model. And then the final thing is what we're doing is really quite sophisticated, on the telematics side. You know, I've mentioned the traffic signal thing. We don't really want to share it with a competitor because no matter how many NDA's are signed, you can't what somebody knows something...

Nick
You can't unlearn it! It's so very true. It's so very true. And, you know, I generally recommend for folks that are starting to go the mga route, you have one of the few use cases where it absolutely makes sense, where there's something particular about your business model where you need the control on it and you can't have the carrier that's backing you basically pushing back so hard, on your model that they change it and make it theirs. It's essentially a, you know, a slight deviation from what they're already used to, you have different elements all throughout the chain that requires you to make sure that we, you know, in order for this to work and for us to test this out to see if it works, you know, we need control over this and that's generally something a carrier backer is not really willing to do.

Robert
I think that's right. So it's interesting you say that because because we were speaking to Greenlight a show, you know, as a as a reasonable size auto insurer. They set up the set, we see a lot of insurtech startups, and they usually do one thing different. I think you guys you do everything different.

Nick
Yeah.

Robert
Which totally due to ignorance.

Nick
That's true. So let's let's talk about that because there's so much different here. And, you're right because generally when I see new Insurtechs, there's not that much different than, you know, the the policy form might be considerably, you know, they may have a customer interaction element, customer experience that's different, but the policy form is the same as it, it always is. There's always so much that's the same. It's just like, you really didn't need to have the expense of getting a carrier set up, but you need distinctive rating, policy forms, speed of the of the filings, basically almost every element of the auto piece. That's as an insurance expert, if you came to me and said, Nick, we need some advice. I probably would have talked you out of it. I probably would have said Robert is that's a lot like I it could take you years to kind of get this off the ground. So talk about that ignorance...talk about, you know, as you were going through, how did you, how were you able to get to successfully through it. In, I would say, a fairly short period of time.

Robert
Well, it's interesting. So I have a theory. And this theory could of course be complete rubbish. But the theory, my theory is that so many great companies are started by young people, because young people don't know how things are supposed to be. And this started from scratch. Now, I knew a reasonable amount but how to price risk. You know, I have my ideas for how to tell whether a car accident or property quite good, but I didn't have any real idea about how auto insurance works. But what I did see very early on, was that trying to put telematics pricing into traditional business model doesn't work. Yeah. And I think that really was so from the start. We were thinking always, how do we make insurance that works with telematics?

Nick
Yeah.

Robert
Now let me address the other question. How did we do it so quickly? The answer...I am incredibly lucky. You know, I'm incredibly lucky that I have this incredible team, who have worked 24 hours a day for 14 months to build this product and get this into the hands of consumers. And, you know, our reviews we've been getting so far from our customers have been just amazing. I'm just hoping that we can keep this up and, you know, build a really great insurance product because there's no reason there's no reason why you can't have a quarter of people in the US having some kind of on-demand, auto Insurance with real telematics pricing.

Nick
Let's talk about your team. So as as your who were the founders?

Robert
Yes. So the founders are the three of us. There's myself. There's our CTO guy called Murray McDonald, who's worked in insurance technology for 20 years, was previously very senior in the tech team at Aspen Insurance. And then there's also a silent partner who is our sort of our legal expert guy called Greg Furcal. Without who we would never been able to launch because it turns out the legals around launching an insurance company are rather complicated.

Nick
So that that that is that's exactly where I want to take these next set of questions and answers is, I'm curious how you set this team up? And did you know your co founders ahead of time? Or did you find them?

Robert
So yes. So like, like, and like anybody with small children, you know, you end up with a group of friends that are based almost entirely around your children's friends. So my co founder on the lawyer side is that is a, the General Counsel of a large Financial Group. Greg, and, you know, he knew the insurance space very well, which was terrific, very helpful. Whereas my former colleague, Murray, that's right, my current colleague, Murray, I was his boss and his first ever job after University. And we've stayed in touch, and it's so happened at the same time that I was developing this insurance idea with Greg, Murray's company got acquired he was looking for something new, so it was serendipitous.

Nick
Okay, so they're the founders. Now let's talk, let's talk about how you began to assemble the rest of the team. What were you looking for? And what? How much did insurance expertise play into how you made your decisions as you rolled this out?

Robert
It's a good question. So the answer is some parts of our business, we have a enormous need for real deep insurance industry expertise. So for example, our head of claims and customer experience is a man who's had almost 30 years of dealing with auto claims and built out claims organizations for large carriers.

Nick
Yeah

Robert
Because this is somewhere where if I don't know what I'm doing, I'm gonna get my face ripped off.

Nick
And that's and that's part of the business model, that's likely not going to change from the traditional, you're going to have an accident, well, you know, shit happens, but car needs to be repaired. How do we do it?

Robert
And we also need to make sure that you know, we are doing all we can to evaluate that claim in a cost efficient manner. And also to to assess whether it was fraudulent or not, and to see the flags around that. And that's something of course, that the traditional insurance industry has become exceptionally skillful at over the years. And it's important that we, we took those those learnings. Likewise, our head of compliance, she is again a 20 year insurance industry veteran who's worked as head of compliance and other larger insurance companies. We know that particularly if we're going to roll out quickly. We need to have relationships, existing relationships with regulators, and we need to know what the regulatory environment looks like per state. The financial controller was previously the financial controller of Next Insurance. Again, you know, you can't mess up your regulatory filings on the financial side, you have to have all those things in exactly the right spot. So those roles, those key roles, I needed insurance industry veterans, and I found them. On the app development side I could be a little bit more, you know, wide looking in my approach. So for example, our head of data science guy called Connan Snider, he was formerly a very senior member of the Uber pricing team. Because I want somebody who can think out of the box about different ways to price risk, and somebody with that experience. Likewise, our head of software engineering is a guy who has built backends and mobile apps for very serious ans successful app startups in the past, maybe there's somebody on that side of things bad experience, not necessarily somebody with insurance.

Nick
That explains it. That explains all of it. There's, I'm curious as to when you started this, are you VC backed?

Robert
Not yet. So any VCs, any VCs watching this, you know, we are now live, we are now now a company with real revenues, real premiums and a zero percent loss ratio!

Nick
It's always good. So, so feel free to reach out. Okay, so the question will be you, you are full stack. So you have basically two giant buckets that you need to have quite flushed with cash. One is the the insurance carrier that needs to have surplus and all that but then your your day to day business operation, the overhead, how did how did you manage that?

Robert
So we're quite fortunate. So the sports data business that I founded Genius Sports that was sold in 2018, which is why I'm here in the US. So, you know, I'd be able to use the profits from that to fund this business. And I'm fortunate that I'm able to take you to a stage where I can prove out the core unit economics, before I take on VC money.

Nick
Yep. I'm envious. I'm envious of that and I'm envious of how fortunate you are. Because at every at every stage, you were you just were able to have the pieces come into place. How much of that do you think was truly fortunate, like in the luck sense, and how much of it was the experience of having gone through startups before, you sort of knew how to put a lot of the pieces together?

Robert
So I am a great believer that luck plays a far larger role in our lives than any of us like to admit. So the answer was, I was incredibly lucky that my former colleague, Murray became available with his deep insurance industry expertise at the same time that Greg and I hatched up this idea. So that was pure good fortune without which we would be nowhere near as far along with project. I think we're also very fortunate that we found the right people in so many areas so luck did play a role. But you also, you know, you make your own that to some extent, you know, if we hadn't, if we hadn't been working 100 miles an hour, we wouldn't have got as lucky as we get.

Nick
Yeah. So I hate I hate to throw out, you know, bad omens. But I think you know, being a tech guy, there's a big push. There's a guy named Elon Musk, and a few others who are pushing autonomous vehicles. How much calculation did that come into play as you were trying to design the startup? Because that could that could...that's a big wrinkle...

Robert
Oh, that is that is gonna fundamentally change the auto insurance industry. But there's two things I will say about autonomous vehicles. So way back when, back in the late 1990s, speech recognition arrived, I remember getting, you know, the IBM speech record. And it was really incredible. Back in 1998/1999, you could speak to a computer slowly, and it would understand you and you know, when you saw this, you the ability to just read up a paragraph text and it was magic. But it was also useless, because it turned out that 99% accuracy was useless. And you have the same issue here with autonomous vehicles, which is that it's not good enough to be 99% good enough. You have to be 99.999% good enough.

Nick
Yeah.

Robert
And that's something we see here. We see this, you know, there are lots of really impressive demonstrations. And I think we're a long way away though, from a situation where people are comfortable handing over control. The second thing, which I think it's just important, if you think back to our customer seconds, we like low income drivers. We think they are underserved. Our customers don't drive vehicles with autonomous features. They don't drive vehicles with Apple CarPlay. Some of them don't even drive vehicles with Bluetooth, or CD player. Some of our customers have tapedecks. So you've got to think of it in those terms. Realistically, let's say autonomous driving comes along in 10 years time.

Well, our customers won't be driving those vehicles for another 20 years.

Nick
Good point. I don't I don't think a lot of lot of people have connected the dots, on how difficult it would be to steer the Titanic, that is the global automotive industry, not the building of cars, but getting them on the roads and how we use them. The culture around that is the Titanic and moving it away from the iceberg is would be it's too much of a task to do in such a short period of time.

Robert
That's right. And it's and it's also not just the you know, it's also if that edge case, you know, when you come across something you haven't seen before...how is the machine able to deal with that? How do you know? This is a little topic but you know, let's say that somebody walks out in front of your car, the autonomous vehicle is in control, and it can, it can divert and miss that person. But in diverting it causes another accident. And it's got to judge at that point, human beings we don't want we accept human beings making difficult judgments? Are we willing to accept a computer making a decision about who gets run into?

Nick
No

Robert
And so you put those together. And that tells me We are further away from autonomous vehicles on the road in real quantities. And then some people think,

Nick
yeah, very good points. Very good points. So How far away are we from...Just Tenants Insurance, Just Event Cancellation? Like how far Oh, this...sSo your your model has seeds that I think could be useful. So you know, we have all of these smart devices, but no one has really figured out how to get those into a homeowner's policy or whatever. And I think a lot of it has to do with what how you described it, is you're taking this new technology and trying to shoehorn it into an old policy form that really wasn't meant to to handle this new technology, it sounds like your particular model would/could work in a much more streamlined way where we could get better homes with you know, safer from fire, theft, vandalism, water damage, all of that stuff. What do you, what are your, what are you thinking towards that?

Robert
I'm thining...so, auto insurance in the US alone is $280 billion market cap. Yep. Okay. So I have 21/22 people working incredibly hard on auto insurance, right? There is a massive opportunity long term to take my teams that know everything now about this pricing, and move on to other things. And there's an opportunity as well to use that change behavior. So people could see the financial consequences of let's say, installing something that reduces their risk of a leak nut...let's get this. Let's let's do what let's do one thing, well, not three things.

Nick
I salute you. Opportunity Cost. Is that the most difficult? The most difficult thing that I have found in small business is there's so many different opportunities, which ones do we work on? Prioritizing...that is extremely difficult. I will be the first one to tell you, I get pulled into so many different things be just because they sound really interesting. They could be new opportunities, it could lead to something. And then you sort of look back and say, ugh, I was not that I wasted a lot of time on it. But I'm spread so thin. I can't devote the necessary energy. And you have done the hard work of saying no, we're going to focus on this. I commend you.

Robert
Well, it's interesting you say that? I mean, I remember reading the Sege and Larry at Google would always...the beginning of every meeting, they'd say decisions we're making here have to recognize the biggest cost is opportunity cost. What is it that we're not doing? Because we do this? And you know, I think that that is, you know, anybody running a small business has to be aware of all the time.

Nick
Yeah. No perfect way to end this this. Phenomenal as a mater of fact, I don't want to end it. No, you know, because what, one more thing since I'm going to sign off and tell everybody to stay safe. We do have this pandemic. And you kind of alluded to this, this is both good and bad for your business. One of the really interesting parts is in your business model, you don't have to give credits back.

Robert
No!

Nick
Your business model is...your business model is already completely set up for a scenario just like this. But are you, is can the business, the model, the way you set upitcan o survive if we go through in a very expensive period of time, which we may, where people aren't driving?

Robert
The answer is yes, I think the reason is because right now, it might be the case that the number of miles driven has fallen by 50% I would estimate the number of accidents has fallen 75%. So you know, even in an environment where people are driving less I think the margins for auto insurers are better even in a per-mile world simply because the cars on the road fewer crashes.

Nick
Yeah.

Robert
And and I'll lower my for me, no one's driving home from bars drunk either.

Nick
Yes. Very good point. awesome way to end this. It's a It's a pleasure to meet you.

A real pleasure of meeting you too.

I mentioned before we started recording. This is you're the founder of Python Anywhere right? Not just Yes, yes. So for those that are listening, and I do I know there are quants and Math nerds on here Python Anywhere. It's this guy, or this guy right here is the founder, I had just signed up for being in this pandemic, I wanted to come out of it with some sort of skill set. I always wanted to learn R or Python. I chose Python. I joined Python Anywhere. I was going through Robert's CV and there it is, I'm just like, there's such an ironic world, that we that we live in that I get to really, you know, get to have conversations with such interesting people.

Robert
I think it's been a pleasure for me to thank you very much for your time.

Nick
Okay, so, for those that are listening, as usual, stay safe. Wash your hands. Keep your distance, be respectful. And until next time. Thank you very much.