EP13: You Can’t Trust Screamers! – Laurie Conner, CEO of The Detection Group on using IoT to Reduce Water Damage for Commercial Property

Internal water damage losses dwarf fire-related losses and yet, most underwriters still focus on fire primarily. In this episode, Nick speaks with Laurie Conner, CEO of The Detection Group about how they are using modern smart, IoT, tech to drive loss costs for internal water damage down. These devices have truly become smart…and economical. So much so that they’ve discussed how irresponsible it is to NOT implement these as a risk management process. They got nerdy in the engineering of the technology, including the importance of frequency/wavelength, battery life, etc.

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Transcript

Nick
Welcome back everyone. This is the Coverager Podcast. So, late Friday afternoon, I am pleased to do some geeking out on the engineering side of this...my guest this week is Laurie Connor. Laurie is the President and CEO of The Detection Group. And so we're gonna get into some engineering stuff. It's not private eyes or anything like that. So good old fashioned engineer alone engineering along with modern technology, and how we can apply that to risk in insurance. Laurie, good afternoon.

Laurie
Afternoon, Nick, thank you so much for having me.

Nick
I appreciate it. This is going to be a fun conversation because it's actually a topic that's very close to my heart, which is modern technology, and for those that are listening now, they've probably already have listened to a conversation I had with telematics regarding automobiles. This is a little bit different. This is using smart technology. In a commercial setting.

I always start off Laurie, with, you know, giving a floor to my guests for an elevator pitch. The Detection Group, can you describe it in your own words?

Laurie
Sure. The detection group was founded to help commercial properties, avoid water damage. So we do that very simply, using cloud based IoT technology, and I know that your listeners, I'm sure have heard about both of those, both the cloud and how important it is, particularly now, in the in the times where people are working remotely. And for In fact, we're using the cloud right now to have this interview.

Nick
Mm hmm.

Laurie
And, you know, IoT stands for the Internet of Things, as you know, and it really uses the new technology for wireless sensors, that we're placing in buildings. And so it's a pretty simple system. Think about think that think about this, like a smoke detector for water for water damage.

Nick
That's a really good way of putting it because that's what it is. Right. So these sensors have become very sophisticated over time in what they can do and how they do it. Can you? Can you talk a little bit about the the breadth of different types of technology used to detect water?

Laurie
Yeah, sure, I'd be happy to. And you're right. I mean, 30 years ago now, probably the technology was what we call screamers, which is you put something in a device on the floor, and when it senses water, it screams at you, right? And, you know, I think what we know you can buy them at Home Depot, and we're all familiar with those. They're not connected. And the only way that work is if you happen to be in earshot. Right. And so, what the new technology is, what our technology is about is we have a cloud platform with a lot of intelligence and a lot of data tracking. And that communicates with the sensors that are typically put throughout a building. So you know, in In the world of now, in the world of COVID, it is even more important because we, we become sort of the eyes and ears in your building, right? As as you know, in these buildings that are idle and with, you know, little or no tenants and a skeleton crew, it becomes even more important now to have use technology and not just water for water leaks, but in general...use technology to to monitor your building remotely. And so, you know, we do it for for water damage. And as many of your listeners might know, water damage is usually the number one or the number two property loss claim every year in buildings. And so it's a big issue. It's not only frequent, the most frequent loss but it's also can be a very large loss. If you take out a big piece of equipment like an elevator, for example,

Nick
You know what's really interesting about how...stuck in cement the insurance industry is, is that on the property side, Laurie the the bulk of underwriting when it comes to insurance...property insurance specifically is fire. Well, yeah, even today, the most of the underwriters at firms, the senior underwriters all almost always have fire backgrounds, and when the new underwriters come in, that's what they get trained on is fire. And it's ironic, right? Because you just said, water is more frequent and can be severe. And my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, I know this is on the residential side, I don't know the same on the commercial side. Water is actually magnitudes more costly, from a loss perspective than fire

Laurie
Yes, and you're right. I mean, it's, it's, it's usually what we say it's a fire and theft combined is still lower than water damage and losses. And that's, that's at the insurance side, right. And so there's the side on the on the building owner on the client side, well, the building owner has a deductible, right? And so the deductible, you know, could be, you know, small like $25,000 a building or something, it could be very large in some cases. You know, if you own a lot of property, you're going to have a high deductible, like half a million or a million dollars. So that means that your, your risk is up to, you know, that amount of money for every leak, right? And so, it doesn't take much calculation to realize that, you know, it really is important to have a water leak detection system and until wireless you know it was really really difficult to do that because the technology was other the screamers which you know they're great for your home but they don't really work in a commercial property. And you know there is another technology, the law a long line, a sensor, a cable like made by trace tech and others. Those are powered, so they have to be plugged in. And that's great for a so for example, a data center where everything is plugged in and it doesn't matter and it is used quite often in data centers. But if you don't want to bring power to, for example, your restroom area or you know your mechanic where you have your mechanical rooms and janitorial rooms where you might have leaks, areas like under the kitchen sink and such. You know, wireless sensing just really gives you the flexibility to sense a leak anywhere in the building.

Nick
Yeah. What is your opinion and do you use or install or operate around the water devices that will actually can actually detect water flow, understand it, and when it recognizes that something might be off, shut down, shut down water completely to the structure to prevent water from leaking out. How do you feel about that?

Laurie
Yeah, that's a great question, Nick, we get asked that quite a bit. For a single family home...it's a great way to find the leak, right? Because you know, kind of the, there's a discrete number of water sources that you have in your home. And you know, if somebody's taking a shower, or you know, at two o'clock in the morning, you don't expect any flow at all right? And so for a small area like that, it makes a lot of sense. For commercial building where you have water flowing All the time through all these different risers and you know domestic water and wastewater and all these different flows for the HVAC system, it's really really difficult to use flow meter/flow sensing and when I when I talk about flow, there's two kinds of flow sensing, there's the kind that you kind of wrap around a pipe of this non invasive. And then there's the, the kind that that is installed, interrupts the pipe, so it's installed as a sort of a sub meter, and, and I can talk about the differences there. But in general, detecting leaks, if you if your purpose is detecting leaks in a commercial building...it's very difficult to use flow metering technology alone, right? Because you're not going to what you really want to do in a commercial building is you want to you want to Find a drip, drip, drip, right? And, you know, if you got an inch and a half pipe size, which is typical, you're not gonna it's gonna be it needs to be very, very super sensitive to be able to discern between, you know, 10 gallons per minute and 10.05 gallons per minute if you follow me, right so, but having said that, there is knowledge that you can gain with the combination of point sensing, which is what we do, and what we do now, and flow fencing, which we will add at the end later on this year. So we recognize that it does add value, but it does not replace, point sensing, because really what you're doing here is if your goal is to protect the asset, so you're protecting the building if you're if that's your primary goal, then you're you're gonna want to sense the water that's coming out of the pipe, not necessarily the water that's flowing through the pipe down the drain that might be wasted if that makes sense?

Nick
It does it does a lot. How How has the cost changed over time? You? So I think you said 20/30 years ago, this, you know, the screamers were around how, you know, the technology is now more sophisticated, is it is it much more reasonable and more cost effective and economical for a commercial entity? Or, you know, multifamily multi unit, you know, complex, habitation complex to install one of these than in years past.

Laurie
Yes. And, you know, let me just say that the screamer technology Well, I don't even know if we can call that a technology but the screamer solution is was really never appropriate for commercial building, I mean, maybe you would want to put that in your home, you know, and hope that you're going to be there to hear it. But if you compare it to the technology, the long line sensing technologies that I mentioned, where you have to, you know, you're plugging in the sensor to electric power...so much more cost, we are so much more cost effective now. I mean, it's in the range of three to five times less expensive and a lot of that has to do with the ability to just place a sensor anywhere the sensors are battery operated, right, so they literally, you know, they cost maybe about 100 bucks, and you can put them anywhere and and the key for commercial property is is maintaining good communication throughout the building. And that, I will say is a bit of the tricky part, right and that's where the expertise comes in. Then the second part, the expertise is when you're, when you take that data and when you get that signal from the sensor that there's an alarm, what to do with it, right? And so let me talk, let me talk about the first part, right? It's really, really important, you know, because of course, these are wireless sensors that they communicate well throughout a building. And as you know, you know, typical commercial building has a lot of concrete and steel and all sorts of building materials that would obstruct a wavelength that's trying to get through and I promise I will geek you out too much.

Nick
Oh, that's a yes No, you go you you use you use whatever level of engineering terms are going to adequately describe this.

Laurie
Okay, thank you. Well, we're sitting, I'm sitting here at Silicon Valley. So I'm surrounded by all these geeks and I love it. So the the issue in a commercial building that you generally don't have in a in a residence is that you have to go through thick walls and rebar and such. So one of the things that we learned, you know, we understood from having been in this business for almost 15 years is the, that Wi Fi and Wi Fi is a specific, a specific frequency at 2.4 gigahertz and that's what most of your devices use in your home. So, you know, if you have a video camera, you know, Ring or something outside your door, something that's going to be a Wi Fi device. And so, two things to note and you guys and your listeners probably know this already. Wi Fi doesn't have a great range distance between the device

Nick
I think everybody knows that.

Laurie
Yes. And you know, it's it's just not acceptable in a commercial building. You know, in part because of that. I mean, you know, we need to go sort of a few hundred hundred feet. And so we use the frequency is a sub gigahertz frequency. So it's a much lower frequency, and all else being equal, lower frequency, longer distance, sort of thing. So, you know, the other part about Wi Fi and you may you also may know is that it's an always-on technology. So what that means practically, is that the battery life is lower. So your your video cameras, I have video cameras around my house, I've changed those batteries or charge the batteries every like four months or something. And so that won't work in a commercial application.

Nick
I was having a humorous image of there's a commercial with a pro football player where he's responsible for taking care of the stadium. Right? And he's he's walking around because the smoke detectors chirping he can't figure out which smoke detector is and he keeps going to the wrong one. It's always the one behind them. And that's the image I have as you're describing these with these batteries is the first thing that came to my mind. It's just like, oh boy in a big warehouse or industrial facility, it's like, am I gonna have to be chasing chirps? How did so I ended up it does sound like the batteries do last longer? How much longer? And how do you prevent that humorous or not so humorous, not trying to work. Where is this thing? You

Laurie
Yeah, yeah. And well, look, luckily we figured that out. And so we track so number one, the batteries last somewhere in the range of three to five years, depending on how often they're you know, they're sensing a leak, right. So typically what our customers do is they when they start getting notices from us that they the sensor has a low battery, then they they start putting that on a on a pm...on a program maintenance list, right? So it's controlled and you know, they're doing it as part of their, their building maintenance. So we you know that this is one of the parts about the platform, the platform...our Trident management platform, monitors every single piece of equipment we have in the building, right so we not only monitor every endpoint, but we also monitor the hubs and base, the smart base station and also you know, if you have valve controllers and valves that we've installed in your building, we monitor those too. So it's really, because it we consider this a critical system for the building, right it's, you know, we are we're trying to stop all water damage would which you know, is not only, you know, property loss and dollars and such, but it's also a business interruption it could cause you know, that dreaded four letter M word that we talked about which is mold. And it's it's just a you know, if anybody's had a water leak prior that's listening to this. I'm sure they will remember the pain involved in that whether it was in their house or or in a in their building.

Nick
Yeah, I remember having a podcast interview I can't remember exactly who but Canadian, insurance professional, and the number one cause of loss in the Toronto area where water leaks and water damage in high rises, because they occur in upper floors...and then becomes if they're, you know, especially if there's nobody there they become uncontrollable, potentially reaching down into the, you know, the floors beneath that particular unit. It could just be an absolute disaster having to gut multiple units on multiple floors because of all because of a water leak. It's that insidious.

Laurie
Yes. And you know, we like to say, gravity is not your friend when it comes to water. Right? And it will find its way down the building and the taller the building, the more the damage. And so you're right, these taller buildings are very susceptible. So and you know, when I talk about commercial, I'm talking about sort of that broadly Nick, so it's not just, you know, commercial office or medical office or pharmaceuticals or hospitality, or university buildings or research facilities or hospitals. It's also multi family so that the thing about multifamily and this unique is number one is it's somebody's house, right? And so you know, you've got, you've got a lot of sort of personal, you know, your personal items that may be irreplaceable and valuable to you. And then secondly, you know, you're living on top or below somebody. So, you know, one of the things that I always remind people of, you know, because, you'll talk to a resident of a high rise building, they'll say, "Oh, yeah, I'm protected because I bought this so and so. water leak detection, you know, some sensors, I put them in my unit", right? And I said, Well, that's good. So you've, you've actually protected the people below you.

Nick
Mm hmm.

Laurie
Right? And so you're going to get hit from the your neighbor's one or two floor, maybe however many floors above you, right. So you really need to buy them the system. And so that's why it needs to be a full building system. And I also think it needs to report to the building maintenance people, not just the owner,

Nick
Makes a lot of sense. I do have a personal experience with exactly that living in a, you know, multi multi story building apartment in Boston. In the middle of winter, I couldn't get my shower to shut off. It just kept running. And I said I'll just get to it later and to me it didn't seem like that big a deal. I'll just I'll just I'll just run it in the shower. Yeah, and you're right water is so insidious that it found a crack somewhere and got to the floor beneath us and I got you know, my door pounding on one morning because the guy beneath me is just like what the hell's going on my my paint is bubbling. I think there's a water leak. And yeah water is insidious. When it when it comes to it will it will find the lowest point?

Laurie
Yeah, and it it is and in that case, so I mean, it's really almost remiss you know, we have a client who owns mostly commercial buildings, but they also own some multifamily. And basically, their head of engineering said, you know, it's it, you know, knowing that this kind of technology is available and not installing it in your building to protect your assets is almost unconscionable. I mean, you know, it really doesn't make sense. And, you know, like, I use the smoke detector for water analogy, because if, you know, if you think back, I don't know, 30 years or so, maybe not that long, you know, smoke detectors were kind of a nice to have, right. And now, you know, they're, they're required now a lot of that code, but, but people understand the need for that. And so that's why, you know, we're just trying to help inform the, the industry of, you know, the insurance industry as well as, you know, their clients and our customers that we that there is this solution.

Nick
Yeah

Laurie
I'm happy to report so one of the things that's happened is In the last year or two, Nick is, the insurance industry and I'm talking about the carriers, now the P&C carriers are starting to take notice. And it is great, you know, it wasn't lost on us in, in in the beginning. So I've been at The Detection Group actually for seven years when we bought the another company, another small company that was started by a guy who was in the restoration business. And I came on as CEO, because of my experience in leak detection from prior prior companies and it wasn't lost on me, right back then, in 2013, that the insurance business is made perhaps the largest financial beneficiary of this technology, right. It's not the customers that actually we have today, which are building owners and corporations. It's really the insurance carrier. And finally that we're in you know, where we're, they've woken up. And, you know, we've gotten a lot of progress in the last year or two, I'd love to describe a little bit of that to you, if that's okay.

Nick
I would love that because that's where we're, that's where I wanted to head to and sort of finish off our conversation is the application of it. And I'd like to hear about how far you've taken it because I, feel as though I've got my finger on the pulse of what has been sort of corralling this, in preventing it from escaping and becoming more standardized in the market. But I'd like to at least hear from someone on the ground, how far you've been able to take it because I'm, like extremely concerned about the inability of the industry to take advantage of these technologies over and over and this is beyond just water detection, like just all the all the different types of technologies that exist, they just, you know, it's it's like, it's like the plague with them trying to avoid these technologies. So I am really curious as to how far you, you know, how far you've been able to take it and how long you think the curve will be before this is potentially standard-practice risk management for commercial entities, but also ensures kind of forcing it on their commercial insureds.

Laurie
Yes, I mean, and that is the crux of the conversation, and it's all great. And and it's, what I can say is that it's starting, right. So not, you know, both the real estate business and the insurance business. I mean, let's think if we could pick it to other industries that are more conservative than those two, you know, so that is the first issue, right? Everybody is very conservative, and they're data driven and such and so there was a lot of hesitation in the beginning and one of the things so I can tell you that one of the huge accomplishments here, you know, on our side is that last month we received approval from Factory Mutual right? So FM approval, many of your listeners may know them because of FM Global is obviously you know, one of the top commercial property insurers in the world and they have a division that tests products against a standard and that you mentioned Fire Protection that's where it all started back in the mid 1800s right...

Nick
They're the gold standard. For it all to me there I always...I put them on that pedestal of the role model that I wish other insurers would sort of emulate in in how they you know, they're basically a company of engineers that's how they think. Insurance and property insurance, for instance, to me is sort of like Applied Engineering.

Laurie
Right, exactly. Because, you know, the, the where the carriers really can assist their clients is and helping them reduce risk by improving their building systems. And so FM came to us last year. I mean, we've been talking with FM for many years, right? But they came to us last year and said, Okay, we're ready kind of thing, right. And so, they, they wrote a standard, an FM standard on that, actually, they edited a standard they already had, which was the standard for hydrocarbon leaks, and they added water to it. And so it became a liquid leak standard. And then they invited everybody to submit their technology, their solutions, and so we did and you know, it's a lot of work and a lot of testing. I mean, I don't have to tell this audience FM is very rigorous. And they're testing for quality for consistency. And for, you know, what the, that the that the system does what it says it's going to do in various situations and various temperature ranges and all sorts of things. And so our engineers work closely with their engineers, and we received the approval and we're I'm really proud to say that we're the first and only wireless water leak detection solution that's FM approved.

Nick
Congratulations!

Laurie
Thank you. And you know, we're I'm really can't tell you how important this is to us. And we're just now learning about the impact. So now what we're doing and this happened all in the last sort of 30 days, right where we are giving seminars and webinars to, to engineers, to insurance, loss control engineers around the country just to so that they can get up to speed on, how the system works, etc. And, and then we're, you know, we're helping their, you know, answer questions about their, you know, their client's particular situations or particular buildings or portfolios or stuff. So it's, it's starting, and I think this really could be transformational for the wireless, you know, for us as as The Detection Group, but also for wireless and IoT as a kind of a technology that's utilized and recognized by the insurance industries as one that can really help lower risk.

Nick
Yeah. So that's, that's where I think the disconnect begins to unravel, because you got the ear of the loss control folks. But in reality, the, with this sort of technology where you're expecting losses to go down so loss costs will trend down the more this technology becomes standardized in the industry, I am disappointed with the lack of response from the insurers to provide the instead of waiting for the you know, the actuarial data to kind of pinpoint that, you know, the loss experience has begun to improve. There's been, I have found there's been that disconnect of implementing these technologies or being forward thinking in getting companies to implement this technology, knowing that the loss losses are going to go down so they could realistically get in front of this, be proactive, push this with the necessary discount. And it would almost encourage the standardization because now these commercial entities will know this pays for itself. Over time, we will get the necessary premium credits and I don't know how much you know what the economics are on your own. But it sounds to me like it's something that a risk manager at a commercial entity can, on the back of an envelope can do a return on investment and say we spend this money on this investment for this risk reduction. You know, whether it's three years, five years, seven years, that investment will have paid for itself in reduction in insurance premium. And that right there is my big...that's the chasm that I think insurers have not been willing to cross over, they're sort of saying, Yeah, go ahead, make that investment. Go ahead. drive down your loss costs, but you're not getting any discount until we actually see it.

Laurie
See the data. Yeah. So we can help with that. So what we say Nick, in terms of ROI is literally, you know, the systems are cost effective enough that you you basically have to avoid one leak and the system pays for itself. So let me give you an example. So we just, we just installed a system in a building in San Francisco. It's a 38 story, office tower, three weeks ago or something, maybe maybe four weeks now. And the engineer, the building engineer called our guy, like last week, and he said, "Oh, my God, you saved my, you know what"...he goes, "we had a toilet overflow on the 17th floor in the men's restroom on Friday afternoon, evening", right? And he said, I got the I got the call. And he said, Oh, and by the way, there's no floor drain in that restroom. And I got the call. And I went up there and and he said it was it was flowing. He said, let me tell you that would have bought...nobody would have caught it. And it would have gone down to the lobby by the time anyone came and noticed it. So you know, you can't calculate how much you want that cost would have been. But it's it's probably 10 times what the cost of the system is. So it really is a driven thing. The other cost thing I will say is that, you know, we have, we have two, we have many big customers, but two in particular, that are that we have spoken with and engaged with their insurance companies. I mean, they're big enough that they have, you know, I guess, consortia of insurance companies. But we learned that that by saying they've been using our technology for 7/8/9 years, and so they're very familiar with them. They're actually just in the process of upgrading to our new system. So we have a former system and now this Triton system is the new one. And they have loss ratios in the single digits.

So I really, you know, so I actually had to ask somebody because, you know, I'm more of a from the tech world, I didn't really understand what that meant. And so

Nick
It's good! It's good!

Laurie
you know, and I said, Well, what exactly is that good?

And they said, Yes, I said, what I've heard is that, you know, a good boss, you know, typical loss ratio might be in the 50 to 60%,right? Yep. So, I mean, if I don't know what other proof that you need, Now, granted, these customers, I'm sure are doing other things, other proactive things besides just leak detection, so I won't take all the credit for that. But it's got to be a big portion of it. So, you know, it's this kind of information and they know, you know, it's just we have to get off-the-duff and the other thing I will say what you said earlier, Nick, about you know, the insurance companies have to reduce the premium or whatever, I think, you know, it could be, the discount, if you will, could come from many places, right? So I know when you reduce your premium, you know, that means your top line goes down. And nobody really wants to do that. Right. So without, you know, without a lots of data, but maybe you could take some money from marketing or from some other place, and then and provide and pay for part of the system or all the system for your customer, you know, whatever, so that it's not, you know, there's different pots of money, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. And I do agree with you completely that the carriers need to pony up. Again, because they're the major You know, they're the major beneficiary of this technology.

Nick
Well, I mean, you wouldn't be a business unless you had a sales and marketing department. So, you know, I know your sales team is probably skilled at you know, answering objections and kind of talking through that. It's as an insurance professional, it's still there still something that irks me about it because it, you know, you're this, you know, water leak claims is outside of what I do on a day to day basis, which is more than natural catastrophe side of stuff. And I've seen firsthand, you know, having conversations with folks about future catastrophes and you know, a lot of property owners, their eyes glaze over, it's like you want me to make what sort of investment for some future thing that may or may not happen. It's a, it's a tough sell. And if it becomes a lot easier if you know you have, you know, the carrot, which is the insurance program, that's it, they all have that, that is, to me, that's the lubricant that can potentially it that benefits everybody in the transaction, including the insurer themselves. And you know, that that you know, as as as we discussed Is that the beginning their inability to gravitate towards the technology...super frustrating now that the technology is here, their inability to sort of blend it into their business model and kind of force the issue with it. It's it's just it's a head scratcher to me, that it hasn't happened faster, because it benefits it. I, Laurie, I always I always when I think of like a sales transaction...you know, everyone sort of goes for Win-Win, which is, of course I do that. I always think there's a third win. There's society wins, you drive down loss costs. If you implement this sort of technology across the board, it becomes standard. similar to how you know smoke detectors and fire alarm detection systems have become standard. It drives down lost costs that become that frees up capital over the long period for companies and individuals to then go do other things. And it's to me that it technology like yours adds to the wealth of society, it becomes a win-win-win. And I in this particular case, I just feel like it's my industry that's slowing down the adoption of it. And I just I find it super ironic.

Laurie
Yeah, that is kind of an interesting way to look at it. Yes. And I think, you know, so. So, you know, where we are today as a company, you know, we've installed our system and, you know, more than well, over 400 buildings around the us right now, we're focused in the US, although we're getting some interest from the rest of north of North America. And these are, you know, I'm really, really super proud of our, customer base, you know, some of the largest, either property managers or property owners or corporations in the in the world really and you know so for example one of our flagship buildings is Salesforce Tower in San Francisco you know we we were designed in to the tower and we've we've caught in fact we the first leak we caught in the tower was on what while it was still under construction right it was a sink area, a pantry area, that you know the contractor didn't do such a great job of it and you know our system was because because it's modular It was kind of being installed as the as the floors were getting complete, and until the alarm the the sensor kept going off and the guy you know, the building engineer said called my guy and said, you know your system doesn't work. It's not it's keeps alarming. There's no water here, right so our guy went in to the building and he went on his hands and knees and there is actually carpet underneath the thing and he said, Come here, he said, this carpet is sopping wet, right? So what happened was the water was flowing from the sink sort of behind the wall because there was a gap and behind the wall down, the wall, on the inside, coming into the back into the floor of the sink area and causing the sensor to alarm. So we saved somebodybutt, if I might say so, right, go ahead. Yes. And, it's like those kinds of things that you you know, there's a ton of stories. We Nick, just to give you an idea. In the last three and a half years, we've sensed over 11,000 leaks. So just, you know, do the math, if you've got an average an average commercial leak is somewhere around 80 or $90,000. You know, I don't even want to do the math. It's a big number.

Nick
It is

Laurie
And how do we get the you know, hopefully the insurance I think, I think I'm very hopeful that with the FM approval, and with that sort of stamp of certification that this system you know, it's not a pilot anymore this system works. And it works for these kinds of customers. And that is what I'm hoping that you know, FM and others we are talking with other carriers not just FM but they kind of lead that lead to charge on this. And the other carriers are saying, Wow, you got this approval, we need to, you know, hurry up and get a program together to deploy this. So I'm hopeful that it will move faster now.

Nick
Great idea, a great concept seems like a great product. And honestly, the more you talk, the more excited I get because this is the type of win-win-win. Our industry can hang our hat on. You know, we don't necessarily have the best stereotype and it's products like yours, that can change that, where it's we become mission critical to adding to the wealth of society. You know, by reducing risk we have, we have the capabilities, we can do it. And so, thank you so much for taking time out of your, you know, Friday afternoon to discuss this. I just think it's so critically important.

Laurie
Well, Nick, again, thank you for having me. And I've really enjoyed this conversation and having the all the discussion about the insurance industry and how we can work together. And, you know, what I just would say is if anyone wants to learn more about our company, just go to www.thedetectiongroup.com And yeah, thank you again for for having me.

Nick
Yeah, I will, I will have all of your connections homepage. Everything that this transcription will be in the show notes. So anyone that wants to reach out to Laurie, learn more about The Detection Group, just Go over to the show notes. Everything will be there. Again, Laurie, thanks so much.

Laurie
Thank you, Nick. Have a great weekend.

Nick
You too.

Laurie
Stay inside thanks.